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And he apologizes, both to the people who claimed to have good reasons for demanding Anthony Weiner's resignation, and to the people he's letting down by switching sides in this argument. Which, he, (I) am doing. Right now. Right this fucking minute.

It has been amply proved to me by some very patient Kossacks that Representative Anthony Weiner had bad horrible, perverted reasons for his conversations with that 17 year-old girl.

I'm not ashamed that I had to have it proved to me. I am ashamed (at least a little) that it took so long to prove it to me.

But here's the thing. I'm still against calling for Anthony Weiner's resignation. Instead, I think he should be formally removed from Congress. I think he should be booted with as close to a unanimous vote as possible. Why?

Because resignations are sleazy. They nullify elections without adequate (often without any) explanation to the voters why their votes are being overruled. Votes are all we've got. Not only that, they're all we need. Even ridiculous, un-American Supreme Court decisions like "Citizens United" pale in power, when compared to each citizen's vote. For example, all the money on the planet cannot convince U.S. voters that the Ryan Medicare Plan is a good deal.

When a Congressman is removed from office, the voters in his or her district deserve to see every bit of evidence as to why their votes are being, in effect, discarded. For those who will say that a formal removal will hurt Democrats more than a resignation, all I can say is that I'm not talking about politics. I'm talking about our rights as citizens of this country. That, even though at this point I can't see how a resignation could be better politically than Democrats' willingness to expel one of their own for good cause. You know, do the right thing.

It works both ways. Congress shouldn't have the right to intimidate and basically scare a member of Congress into resignation. If they have the means to fire someone, they should have to prove it. If they don't have enough on a member to formally fire them, then they should have to leave that firing to the voters in the next election.

Resignations are expedient to everyone except the voters. Nevada Republican John Ensign's resignation was expedient for him, and politically expedient for the GOP. The citizens of Nevada and of the United States of America will never, ever get the complete story now. Nor will we learn who and to what extent he had help from other members of Congress.

Again, I apologize to the Daily Kos community. Both to those who now love me, and to those who now hate me. I'm a dick.

I now believe that Anthony Weiner should be formally ejected, fired, (whatever it is called) from the U.S. House of Representatives. I believe this can be done quickly and with a near-unanimous vote of both the Ethics Committee and the House as a whole. I also believe it will be politically preferable to Democrats, as compared to demanding and accepting Representative Weiner's resignation.

I know. IOKIYAR.

There are times we should be proud of that.

----------------------------------

UPDATE: Okay. In my embarrassed haste, I neglected to include what changed my mind -- what proved to me that Weiner had sexual intentions with the young lady. In one of his conversations with the 17 year-old girl, Weiner used the phrase  "I came back strong. Large. Tights and cape." Now remember, I didn't WANT to believe this was anything except an innocent Superman reference. I mean, his inclusion of the word "Large" is a bit troublesome, but still no proof. Right? Well Weiner used the exact same phrase in one of his full hardon sexual conversations with one of the older cyberfuck ladies. I tried to explain even that as meaningless. I tried to say that still wasn't proof. Just didn't work. With the rest of what we know, that would convince most juries of Weiners nasty intentions. And it convinced me. This hurt, folks. I still feel bad about it. But I'm not going to pretend I don't have adequate proof. I think Anthony Weiner was beginning to attempt a seduction. And it's like finally seeing one of those optical-illusion hidden-images. I can no longer think that Anthony Weiner DIDN'T intend on seducing that young lady. I completely understand if the image hasn't flipped for some of my much beloved fellow Kossacks. I will rec anyone and everyone who disagrees with me.

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Comment Preferences

  •  IOKIYAR... (12+ / 0-)

    not necessarily.  That's part of how D's won NY-26.

    I've come around to favoring resignation.  Comparing to Vitter makes me wanna barf.

    "To sing the blues you got to live the dues and carry on" --S. Stills

    by bubbanomics on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:03:48 AM PDT

    •  I don't really care what happens to Weiner (58+ / 0-)

      ... but I think this community should be careful about demanding his resignation.  Arguments for resignation are weak and frankly sound either like people taking their own opinions too seriously (ewww... sex!) or traditional Democratic cowardice in the face of a fight with Republicans.

      Between Paul Ryan and Clarence Thomas and Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, there are plenty of people whose lies are far more harmful and more consequential than Anthony Weiner's.  Why aren't we out there making the case that those people should be resigning, rather than passing the smelling salts about Weiner?  Let the process play out, and try to talk about real, important stuff for a change.

      DC politicians don't realize they're corrupt for the same reason fish don't realize they're wet.

      by Dallasdoc on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:12:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  best way to bring important stuff (14+ / 0-)

        back to the fore is to get the weiners out of the way.  Like many dailykos diaries, Weiner is great with a rant but mostly just hot air.

        "To sing the blues you got to live the dues and carry on" --S. Stills

        by bubbanomics on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:16:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then let's do it (45+ / 0-)

          Weiner doesn't have to resign for us to talk about different things, and DC will tire of this scandal du jour and move on to other things soon enough anyway.  It's the nature of the news cycle.  

          Weiner was the only politician highlighting Clarence Thomas' conflicts of interest before his own trouble appeared.  If you want to call that "hot air" go right ahead, but I'd like to see a lot more of that kind of hot air in Congress, not less.  You'd think a community devoted to talking about politics would better value somebody who knows how to, you  know, talk about politics.

          DC politicians don't realize they're corrupt for the same reason fish don't realize they're wet.

          by Dallasdoc on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:19:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  As a Brooklynite (4+ / 0-)

            if this were my district the LAST thing I would want is Kings County Democratic Chairman Vito Lopez selecting the candidate for me.  I am not sure how the Queens guy is.  There are six political parties and all will be entitled to place on any special election ballot.  They will be selected by the party chairs.  

          •  Have you read the similar text (11+ / 0-)

            that Weiner sent to the 17 year old that he had used with the black jack dealer during their sexting...regarding he's coming back Stong, Large. Tights and cape?

            I can't believe that you accept a 46 year old man doing that to a 17 year old.

            •  If that's accurate (14+ / 0-)

              then this is in no way, eww sex.  That is a huge violation of the social contract.  
              46 year olds should be nothing but protective toward kids, not viewing them as tools for sexual stimulation.  Big, red line.  What progressive voice does not get that?

              "On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps...of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again."

              by middleagedhousewife on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:54:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sadly, that is being ignored or dismissed (8+ / 0-)

                by more than a few progressive voices here.

                I can't figure out if they really think it's okay or if they're just being stubborn.  I'm hoping for the latter.

              •  How old was Bill Clinton when he was doing Monica (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dallasdoc

                in the Oval Office?

                Haven't been following this case at all.  Didn't want to read someone's private mail, didn't want to fall into Wheel of Distraction crap again.  Except it's not private -- yes or no?  I mean were Wiener's texts tweets or phone texts?  That's how much I don't know.   Probably matters a lot.

                But, Clinton wise?  I WANTED him to be impeached.  Separate from what went on between him and Monica -- consenting adults, none of my business.  What WAS my business was that he lied.  To me, to the nation, to the courts.  That breaks our contract and is intolerable.  I feel the same about Barack Obama for reasons that have nothing to do with private sex.

                I recced this diary because it engages a debate about what to do next when you feel your voter contract is broken. How do you get healthy?  I'm not necessarily for Wiener resigning, because I agree with Fishgrease's due process arguments.  I'm also feeling that something rotten is going on with voter process when we lose the guys willing to take on the big rotten fish -- like Eliot Spitzer, so convenient that the Sheriff of Wall Street gets cancelled out when he's going after financial fraudsters.  The fish rots from the head... and Wiener doesn't seem to be that.  I'd like a due process that follows the rot.  Clarence Thomas reeks too.  I'm also not happy with the idea that the House as a whole could unvote my vote.  The House Ethics Committee is useless -- you think a bigger chamber is better, and if so why?  It seems to me the best answer is voter recall, but even that is problematic without full information.    

            •  Oh, move the fainting couch over here! (25+ / 0-)

              Middle aged guy is sexting ... 17 year old is sexting ... I wasn't aware that anything like that has ever happened before.  Compared with what I learned in Bill Maher's dramatic reading of Weiner's conversation with the blackjack dealer, tights and cape sounds positively mild.

              I don't accept what Weiner has done, as I don't know all the details.  I don't accept that my opinion on the matter, whatever it might be -- or yours either, for that matter -- should weigh in the balance for Weiner's decision.  We are not his constituents, and we are not his family, so why don't we just butt out?

              Weiner's actions and the scandal that has erupted gives us a great opportunity to discuss lies in politics and where the actualy lying is being done -- not to mention who's being harmed by those lies.  The frame shift is such an obvious thing to do that accepting the media's feeding frenzy and Breitbart's trolling hands the Republicans a victory, just based on the opportunity cost of failing to shift the debate.  And that's why we shouldn't be accommodating with the calls for resignation.

              DC politicians don't realize they're corrupt for the same reason fish don't realize they're wet.

              by Dallasdoc on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:55:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not too many parents of daughters (9+ / 0-)

                are going to be as nonchalant about his online sexual behaviors as you are being...thank God! (and by the way, it seems the parents didn't know that she had resumed chats with him)

                •  Again, so what? (19+ / 0-)

                  That has precisely nothing to do with the real question of whether Weiner should resign, only with how you feel about him.  Which, I am suggesting, is a stupid way to go about deciding whether he should resign if you're not his constituent.  So far his constituents haven't proved as censorious as you are, and if further details change that, so be it.  But it's the further details that will determine that, not your or my opinions today.

                  DC politicians don't realize they're corrupt for the same reason fish don't realize they're wet.

                  by Dallasdoc on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:09:05 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Here's the political problem as (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mjd in florida, freesia, Matt Z

                    I see it.  Weiner has been more than just a rep for his constituents.  He has had more of a public persona and more national exposure than the typical rep.  Much more.

                    And as such, he is seen as representative of the entire Party.  Like it or not, that makes him a convenient target for any political enemies who want to paint Democrats as far too sympathetic to older married guys having dicey private conversations with underage girls.  

                    The ads write themselves, and they're not pretty.

                  •  I agree with mjd in florida. (5+ / 0-)

                    Dallasdoc, chastisizing mjd because she's sickened by Weiner's behavior just demonstrates how out of touch you are with main stream America.

                    As a woman, unsolicited pics of dicks, is not only beyond decency but-what the hell- even if you're not a morality puritan- the incredible lack of judgment and hubris does nothing for progressive causes.

                    When I look at the # of recs your comment received, I'm reminded of how narrow a slice of the liberal community this blog serves.

                    •  So you're main stream America? (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Agathena, MJ via Chicago

                      Show me the evidence for that.  And then explain to me why it matters in the least here.  Weiner represents one Congressional district, and the voters there have a right to decide whether they want to keep him or not.  The only evidence we have is one poll, which is strongly behind him.  That may change, but that's what we've got.

                      I'm not arguing that Weiner's behavior isn't reprehensible.  I'm arguing that it's stupid for us to let our personal feelings give Republicans a victory.  Please pay attention to what I'm writing if you're going to criticize me.  And you might be a little humbler about generalizing your own views to the nation as a whole.  Opinions are divided on all sorts of things, so don't assume everybody's behind you without some evidence.

                      DC politicians don't realize they're corrupt for the same reason fish don't realize they're wet.

                      by Dallasdoc on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 01:18:32 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  I'm the parent of a daughter. (11+ / 0-)

                  And I'm not especially outraged about online flirting. Weiner's behavior was a bit sleazy, but it's fantasy. It's a game. It isn't real. Mostly, it's for laughs. It's not like he took any of these people to a hotel room.

                  Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope... --RFK

                  by expatjourno on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:51:54 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Wanna try selling that to an electorate (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Matt Z, mjd in florida

                    who gets bombarded with ads about Democrats who have no problem with older married guys playing "sleazy fantasy games" with underage girls?

                    Wanna tell voters how it's just for laughs?

                    It's not about your personal reaction any more.  It's about how Weiner would be used as the face of the Democratic Party.  How long would it take before "party of pederasts"  replaces "death panels" as the latest smear?

                    Use your heads, people.

                    •  Oh, please. Grow up. (7+ / 0-)

                      Weiner isn't going to be used as the face of the Democratic Party any more than the prostitute-visiting, diaper-fetishist Vitter or wide-stance Craig Appalachian Trail-hiking Sanford were used as the faces of the Republican Party.

                      You have to grow yourself a spine and learn to stop cowering about what nasty things Republicans might say about Democrats. Here's a newsflash: Republicans don't have to have to base anything they say about Democrats on actual facts.

                      Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope... --RFK

                      by expatjourno on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 12:52:14 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I already grew up, thanks. Vitter (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Geekesque, mjd in florida

                        and Sanford and Craig were not the media stars that Weiner has been.  You think this won't hurt, that's your call.  I think it's poison-- not just because of Weiner's relative fame, but because of the kid angle.  Affairs are a dime a dozen.  The merest hint of adults hitting on kids is a whole 'nother thing.  

                        I'm well aware they don't need facts-- "death panels" is a perfect example.  I just don't want to hand them anything to build this particular line of attack on.  Pelosi and DWS are smart enough to realize where this could go.  And they want no parts of it.

                    •  Actually that's an election I'd be interested in (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      expatjourno

                      There's public outrage and then there's every voter who has ever been 17.  Voter booth is private.  I wonder.  I wonder how the election would be framed too and what Wiener's ads would be.  Remember the relief we all felt (or I remember the relief I felt) when Obama gave his Philadelphia speech standing up for Jeremiah Wright?  I know, fast gone.  But he talked about race from both sides, growing up with a beloved grandmother who was afraid of black men, and him looking like the people she was afraid of.  What did Jon Stewart say?  "At last, someone talking to us like adults."  Something like that anyway.  One of the best things I ever saw on The Daily Show was his followup piece with Senior Black Correspondent Larry Wilmore.

                      "And so, at 11 o'clock AM on a Tuesday, a prominent politician spoke to Americans about race as though they were adults."

            •  I bet he says hello to women he (14+ / 0-)

              has sex with, and that he also said hello to the 17 year old girl in question.

              The horror.

              Really?  You're going to try to spin the "tights and a cape" arrogant bullshit, painting himself as superman, into some sort of kinky request for a role-play session?

              Nothing like a ginned-up "sex scandal" to get the crowd baying for blood.

              BTW - You still A-OK with our President deciding that no one who fucking tortured people would be prosecuted as long as they acted on Bush's orders?

              "That's what Slink gets for commenting around with those short one-line posts and wearing all of those liberal ideals."

              by JesseCW on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:27:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The tights and cape line was the same (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mjd in florida, Delilah, Matt Z

                one he used with the blackjack dealer-- just before he moved on to talk about wanting a sidekick and looking at his "weapon".  And we all know where that went.

                (If you don't know where that went, Bill Maher and Jane Lynch have given a dramatic reading of their um- exchanges.)

                •  Right. And sometimes I say "High, my name is (6+ / 0-)

                  Jesse" to women I want to sleep with.

                  I also say it to little old men I encounter on walking down the side walk.

                  By your "logic" (See what a generous mood I'm in today?) that means I'm obviously trying to get at some little old man action.

                  It never cease to amaze me how the repeatition of a smear, maintained long enough, will get the majority of people to buy into "Well....there's gotta be something to it...".

                  Your case just doesn't hold together when examined critically.

                  He may be a scum bag who was intending to hit on a 17 year old girl and send her pictures of his wang.

                  But he we have no evidence that he did so.  

                  If such evidence actually emerges, rather than bizarre speculation, I'll be calling for him to step down.  Depending on the details, I might even be calling for him to be prosecuted.

                  But being an arrogant weirdo who thinks he's superman?

                  Not a crime.

                  "That's what Slink gets for commenting around with those short one-line posts and wearing all of those liberal ideals."

                  by JesseCW on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 12:00:11 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Oh. Okay. Well. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JesseCW, KenBee, DollyMadison

                  You point out to me where Anthony Weiner talked an underage girl about his weapon, and then maybe I'll come around to your way of thinking.

                  When they say "it's not about the sex," it's about the sex.

                  by phenry on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 12:55:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  I hope Jerry Seinfeld never runs for anything (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW, MJ via Chicago, DollyMadison

                He's probably compared himself to Superman in conversations with lots of people, INCLUDING UNDERAGE GIRLS ZOMG, several times throughout his life.

                When they say "it's not about the sex," it's about the sex.

                by phenry on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 12:54:15 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Help me out here, please . . . (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Nova Land, Dallasdoc, thatvisionthing

              I haven't been following this very closely, so I don't know what Weiner actually did to the 17 year old virgin.  Of course in statuatory rape cases "consent" or even "solicitation" do not constitute a defense, nor does failure to check ID to verify age . . . though I suppose all that will come out at trial anyway.

              Anyway . . . could you provide a couple of links to "bring me up to speed" on the facts of the case so I can better understand the issues here?  Are there photos of the secret trysts, "stains on the dress" and all that sort of stuff?

              Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

              by Deward Hastings on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:29:12 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  As far as I have heard, and I have been totally (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Deward Hastings, phenry

                caught up in it, it is nothing more than pixels.

                . . . from Julie, Julia. "Oh, well. Boo-hoo. Now what?"

                by 88kathy on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:55:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  There must be more to it (8+ / 0-)

                  than that . . . I see pictures of scantily clad and provocatively posed women on the shelter at every local buss stop, and kids (obviously) under 17 sitting right next to them.  Nobody seems to be calling for the chairman of the transit authority to resign.  And I've been led to understand that high school kids do something called "sexting" all the time these days (although I don't have direct evidence of it, high school having been half a century ago for me, and, as Churchil is reported to have said: "Don't worry about avoiding temptation.   As you grow older, it will avoid you.").

                  But, kidding aside, "nothing more than pixels" ? ? ?  There must be more to it than that . . . I've got to believe that the highly incensed commenters in this thread will provide some more hard evidence . . .

                  Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

                  by Deward Hastings on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:15:47 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Sorry nothing more. But there is the fact that (4+ / 0-)

                    all of us, and ESPECIALLY me were frothing because we thought we had Breitbart treed on this one.  When the pack, with me baying the loudest, was called off we were heart broken.

                    So now with the hunt still in our noses we are going after the finger pointing soon we will be back to baying at the moon.

                    Damn that pesky wabbit.

                    . . . from Julie, Julia. "Oh, well. Boo-hoo. Now what?"

                    by 88kathy on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:23:22 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  You would think so, wouldn't you? (4+ / 0-)

                    People around here are so invested in their hatred of Weiner that they have to believe he's guilty of some kind of crime, the more horrible the better.

                    I used to have such high opinions of these folks, too. This week has been so disillusioning.

                    When they say "it's not about the sex," it's about the sex.

                    by phenry on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 01:01:58 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  heh (10+ / 0-)

                you almost got me. "virgin" eh? Apparently, Weiner's been found guilty of intent to seduce .... a girl .... by tweet.

                I think Anthony Weiner was beginning to attempt a seduction. And it's like finally seeing one of those optical-illusion hidden-images. I can no longer think that Anthony Weiner DIDN'T intend on seducing that young lady.
                ~Fishgrease update above

                Charged, tried and judged guilty of lewd intentions by public opinion. Off with his head!!

                Weiner’s determination to remain, bolstered by support from his New York City constituents, has angered Democrats. They say his inappropriate online exchanges with at least six women have hurt the party as it seeks to regain control of the House of Representatives from Republicans in 2012 elections. link

                Odd... now there's party discipline. Where's this level of discipline over some actual issues?

                "Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does all the work." ~Mark Twain

                by Lady Libertine on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:19:46 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm gonna say it again- (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  kat68, Matt Z, mjd in florida

                  you're okay with it, or claim to be.  Many people here- even ardent Weiner supporters- are very much not okay with it.

                  What do you think will happen when Weiner gets used as the face of the Democratic  Party, and the ads start blaring about how Democrats are just so okay with older married guys having dicey conversations with underage girls?

                  If they don't distance themselves from Weiner, and fast, that's gonna be the result.  And it will not play well in Peoria.  It will not play well in most of the country.  If there's one thing American voters hate more than killing Grandma, it's messing with their kids.

                  •  This wil happen no matter (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Nada Lemming

                    what Weiner does, or what Dem leadership does.  "Democrats stood by while one of their own tried to seduce a 17 year old..."  The damage has already been done at this point.  

                    "Don't act stupid just because you know how to"--

                    by CT Voter on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 12:06:31 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Yes, some of the damage is irreversible- (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      mjd in florida

                      and that's on Weiner.
                      But I think Pelosi and DWS are smart enough to realize that they need to move the Party away from this guy to limit any further damage.  They don't want to be seen as standing by or failing to recognize this as a problem.
                      Hence the "indefensible" comments.

                  •  Republicans, and many Democrats, are (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    blueoasis

                    just so okay with killing innocent people on the other side of the world.

                    A little perspective, please.

                    What do you think will happen when Weiner gets used as the face of the Democratic  Party, and the ads start blaring about how Democrats are just so okay with older married guys having dicey conversations with underage girls?

                    "We come on a peace thing. White flag?" "White flag!"

                    by VictorLaszlo on Mon Jun 13, 2011 at 11:58:57 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Public opinion counts in his capacity as their (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Dallasdoc, Nada Lemming

                  representative.  I'm not his constituent, but a lot of somebodies are.

                  As for the Party, it sucks.  Sucked, is sucking... will always suck?  Waiting to see them show something fine...  you know, crisis, opportunity.... tick tick tick tick tick...

                  P.S.  Pelosi, who did not think the Constitution was worth fighting for without a winning hand when it came to impeaching Bush... who's she to talk now?   I spit.  Every congresscritter calling for Weiner's resignation who did not call for Bush's, is not calling for Obama's... fuck their hollow Consitutional oath souls.  

                  Mike Stark: Respectfully, that’s not the question. Respectfully, the question is whether or not the Constitution is worth it.

                  Speaker Pelosi: Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed.

          •  with you, Dallas Doc (19+ / 0-)

            there are other things to talk about... see this diary:
            Battle for Health Care, Panel at NN (click through to see who's on it.)

            According to the latest CNN poll, when asked about a variety of critical issues, 96% of respondents answered that healthcare was extremely important or very important as an issue for the 2012 Presidential Election.

            for starters.

            "Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does all the work." ~Mark Twain

            by Lady Libertine on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:45:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Eyes on the Prize (6+ / 0-)

              We've seen this crap from the GOP before.  We have to focus on issues, not political scandals, phony or otherwise.

              The GOP will keep those distractions coming, you can't stop them.  The best thing we can do is keep focusing on issues that matter.  

              Given the dire state of our economy, voters are likely to lose patience with scandalmongering and Dems had better have some irons in the fire to fix the economy and put people back to work.

              I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens. --Britney Spears

              by Betty Pinson on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:36:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Addressing it head-on could be good (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                blueoasis

                Find our butt.  Like, why is Anthony Weiner the only one taking on Clarence Thomas?  Is that true, and why so?  Is Pelosi going to let that die with him?  Sucks again.  What, exactly, do we stand for?  Fakes and caves.  Nothing.  Right, more of the same.

          •  Yep (10+ / 0-)

            that's why I wrote my diary on the Japanese resuming whaling in the Pacific.  It was a blip, but that's what I'm used with my whaling diaries, but fine.

            I'm moving on.

            Some days are diamonds, some days are rocks...Tom Petty

            by Ellinorianne on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:30:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Oh I see (13+ / 0-)

          Weiner is a distraction because people are stupid and keep letting it be a distraction.

          Shouldn't people be distracted by Scott Walker, Rick Perry, Rick Scott.... you know, people who are really fucking their constituents?   Oh how about John Boeher,  Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan....the REAL bad guys in government.  Sheesh.

          If his constituents are unhappy with his performance they can vote him out.  If he gets run out of town based on what we know NOW it will be a freaking joke.

          I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

          by JustJennifer on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:32:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  an all ages fucking that is.. (0+ / 0-)

            and no permission, no lubrication.

            All ages including the yet to be.

            "Responsible people leave neither loaded guns nor paranoid, eliminationist ideologies laying around for the mentally ill to play with".....Driftglass

            by KenBee on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 01:58:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Won't happen-Dems shoot first, ask questions later (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lady Libertine, Dallasdoc, phonegery

          The tendency for the current version of Dem leadership is to shoot fellow Dems first and ask questions later.  It's been that way since the days of Gary Hart.

          The GOP is very skilled at generating faux scandals to impede Dems.  The increasingly biased and corporate owned news media has become highly skilled at helping the GOP accomplish their mission - discrediting and demoralizing Dem leaders and Dem voters.  Shirley Sherrod and ACORN are perfect examples - scams that always make Dems attack their own before asking questions.

          Allegations against Weiner were proven true, but his case is the exception, not the rule.  Breitbart and other GOP operatives both outside and within the trad media are well funded, organized and well supplied with the tools they need to keep making Democrats eat their own.

          Those scandals, sometimes true, but usually false or irrelevant, will keep coming and Dems will keep destroying and discrediting their own leaders whether allegations against them are true or false or deeply personal in ways that don't affect the public. Double standards for  GOP crimes will continue, real scandals and criminal activity will continue to be ignored.

          Its part of the GOP plan for 2012 - demoralize the Dem voting base by getting them to turn on each other.  Are you willing to help them or do you want to fight them?

          I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens. --Britney Spears

          by Betty Pinson on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:33:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why can't we demand better of our own? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Virginia Liberal

            Why do we have to accept lowest Republican denominator because THEY do?  Does anyone win a race to the bottom?  All I see is lose.  Lose lose lose lose... until someone stands up for ... wait, I know.  Weiner changes party.  Win win.

            •  Why can't we STOP SACRIFICING OUR OWN? (0+ / 0-)

              EVERY time the Republicans demand a scapegoat, out come the whips and stones, and another Democrat is driven out into the wilderness.

              If we don't STOP IT, there won't be enough Democrats to fill a bridge table.

              If it's
              Not your body
              Then it's
              Not your choice
              AND it's
              None of your damn business!

              by TheOtherMaven on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:22:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I still like my solution (0+ / 0-)

                it's perfect.

                Also... a frame I have is a scene from The Big Uneasy, Harry Shearer's movie about New Orleans levee failure.  Army Corps of Engineer guy is testifying about differing options on how to fix New Orleans levees post Katrina.  And he's basically spouting circular nonsense to support their decision to go forward stupidly and tragically.  And the guy calling him on it is... David Vitter.

                Now David Vitter doesn't seem able to make the Army Corps get their heads out of their butts and do anything right, but he was on the job that day.  Kinda blew me away.  David Vitter?  What else don't I know?

      •  Amen, Good Doctor! (9+ / 0-)
        Between Paul Ryan and Clarence Thomas and Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, there are plenty of people whose lies are far more harmful and more consequential than Anthony Weiner's.  Why aren't we out there making the case that those people should be resigning, rather than passing the smelling salts about Weiner?

        I'd add some rhetorical questions to ponder:

        Who hasn't lied about sex sometime in their life?

        Would the same people calling for Weiner's resignation go back in time (if they could) and demand Bill Clinton's?

        Everyone does realize, I hope, that as far as we know, Weiner never actually HAD sex with anyone with whom  he was "sexting" with, right?

        So everyone's calling for the resignation of one of our best progressive representatives who lied about talking about sex?!?

        Puritanism is alive and well in America on the left as well as the right. I'm used to it coming from the likes of Bachmann, Palin and their ilk, but it saddens me to see it coming from our side.

        S/he who is without sin, start the stone-chucking...

        This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

        by Snud on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:17:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He LIED about TALKING about sex?!!! (6+ / 0-)

          Oh, my god. Bring me my fainting couch.

          Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope... --RFK

          by expatjourno on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:55:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  he lied about the "vast right-wing conspiracy" (6+ / 0-)

          that's what has bothered me since we found it out was a lie.

          I honestly don't get y'all who keep talking about it is a private matter between him and his wife or he "just lied about sex." Sure it would've been if he'd said, "yes I did it, it's none of your business," or even "no comment, it's none of your business," or even "I didn't do it," with no elaboration, but once he said "I didn't do it, the right wing made it all up, they conspired to bring me down," it went beyond him and his wife.

          Isn't it a matter for the next "Shirley Sherrod" who gets Breitbarted, who will say, hell no I didn't do that, but Weiner's dishonest hell no I didn't do that will make it harder for her? Breitbart said he'd been vindicated, and in this particular case, he has been. Sad, because if it had been approached from a different angle: "Yes I did it and what kind of a creep are you and why are your people digging around into my private business?" things might've been different (well, probably not, considering the 17-year-old girl, which does not look good, and whatever else is to come).

          I know it's a matter for me, because the most difficult thing I've done in political work is to get infrequent Democratic voters out to vote, and register non-voters who might lean Democratic, and these people often tell me they don't vote because they think it's a sucker's game, that it's a charade, that all politicians, no matter their party affiliation, are liars who are only in the game for their own personal benefit, and it doesn't matter who gets elected. The Democratic Party needs these people's votes for long-term success -- they are not generally persuaded by policy details or by "well, the GOP is worse," and every time they hear about a Democratic politician lying it just reinforces their beliefs. Especially at this present moment given so much disappointment regarding Obama.

          •  Why defend the right wing? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dallasdoc, phenry

            We're Democrats. Who cares if a Democrat made a false accusation against the most corrupt, evil and destructive political movement in generations.

            Really?

            I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens. --Britney Spears

            by Betty Pinson on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:38:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  that's me, defending the right wing... (5+ / 0-)

              Betty, please go back and read again: the problem is not "oh dear, poor Breitbart," the problem is that next time Breitbart tries to frame somebody unjustly -- as is his usual modus operandi -- he'll get more even traction, thanks to Weiner's opportunistic grasping at straws when he said "I did'nt do it; they did."

              And the problem is that everytime a Democratic politician lies -- no matter what he's lying about -- it reinforces the "why bother, they're all the same" view held by many people that I have described. And when such politician lies about how it was the "vast right-wing conspiracy" who did it, not him, it only makes it the harder to expose "the most corrupt, evil and destructive political movement in generations" for what it is to the general public. It just makes talk about such "right-wing conspiracy" look like more of the usual political back-and-forth.

              As far as "we're Democrats" why should we care -- are you really asking why we should care that when Democratic politicians lie, infrequent Democratic voters and non-voters who'd be likely to lean Democratic get even more cynical and unlikely to vote for our Democratic candidates?  If so, your idea of what "politics" is is very different than mine. Or maybe you just don't talk to those kind of people very much.

              •  Fight Republicans (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dallasdoc

                the only Democrats I criticize and fight are the ones who cater to Republicans and support their agenda.

                I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens. --Britney Spears

                by Betty Pinson on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 02:07:41 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  moral equivalences and "lying" (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dallasdoc, blueoasis

                I'm not condoning Weiner's behavior, but give me a break with this Democratic purity test.  I wish all of the Dem's were altar boys, but what can you do?

                Is Obama a liar because he didn't do anyhing to the torturers?  Will he be a liar if we don't withdraw from Afghanistan?  Maybe he should have to resign for his lies - according to your logic.  Now tell me again why Clarence Thomas shouldn't resign first.  Where are your priorities?  

                Maybe we should do a better job holding ALL Dem's accountable - for their votes and for the bills they introduce, etc..  I don't think lying about sexting is nearly as important as what happens in DC.  

                U.S. Chamber of Commerce not working for US. Stop outsourcing American jobs!

                by MJ via Chicago on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 04:04:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Huh? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gramofsam1, Virginia Liberal

              He lied about a vast right-wing conspiracy and we're supposed to-- stand up for the lie/liar? jennifer poole is defending the right wing by being miserable over having to represent lying liars to voters?  Not quite following...

        •  What happened to the allegation that he (0+ / 0-)

          was texting to a 13 year old girl?  And how did Breitbart know to target Weiner?  Did he get a tip from some law enforcement source?

          Democrats - We represent America!

          by phonegery on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 02:02:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Never heard about a 13 year old (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            phonegery

            being involved. Hope I never do.

            •  There WAS NO "13 year old". (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Snud, blueoasis

              Rep. Weiner had a few NON-sexual electronic communications with a SEVENTEEN-year-old girl.
              SHE said there was nothing in it.
              HER PARENTS said there was nothing in it.
              THE COPS - who were called in because of all the media fooferaw - said there was nothing in it.

              Breitbart and Co. WERE SPYING ON WEINER'S KNOWN WEB PAGES. They weren't "invited", they weren't "friended", they weren't supposed to be able to see those pages.
              THEY. WERE. SPYING.

              If it's
              Not your body
              Then it's
              Not your choice
              AND it's
              None of your damn business!

              by TheOtherMaven on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:27:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Christopher Lee (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      David PA

      is out because he was looking for transgendered women for sexual hijinks in person, not internet flirting.  If Lee did what Weiner did, I'm not convinced he would have resigned.  That said, Lee is filthy rich and married, so who knows.  He may have stepped down to take care of family business/mitigate the divorce settlement.  

  •  I'd be happy with resignation, just to get this (18+ / 0-)

    crap off the TV (and DKos, for that matter).

    The enthusiastic rec is for your last line. Amen.

    Hell, if you're bored enough to hang out here, might as well check out my site.

    by Crashing Vor on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:05:17 AM PDT

  •  I tipped your jar but to be honest I've pretty (39+ / 0-)

    much had it with Rep. Weiner diaries. At this point it is just, if you pardon the expression, mental mastrubation. And more than a little self-gratification in writing this diaries. Every day we seem to discover something new about this case and every day dozens of pro- and anti- Weiner diaries get posted. This is turning into the Daily Weiner blog. So, thanks but no thanks. This is my absolute comment in one of these diaries. I'm going off the Weiner.

    As soon as you have people telling other people how to live/think/behave because "god gave them authority" you effectively get dictators in funny looking hats.

    by ontheleftcoast on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:07:32 AM PDT

  •  Erm -- ok, (20+ / 0-)

    having already seen a picture of you (fully clothed if that means a cowboy hat is clothing) I'd say you aren't the "D" word.

    I'm not a constituent or a colleague.  I have no say in this matter.  I won't support this assclown's staying, however.  Sure, he can pull a Lindsay Lohan or David Dukovney (sp?) and to into rehab -- on his tax payer subsidized health insurance policy -- but he is a reckless, narcissistic asshole as far as I'm concerned.  And having reviewed his record -- he's also just preaching to the choir with his antics and has shite for a legislative record.

    NYers are generally not as judgmental as I am -- so, it is in their hands -- so to speak.

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:07:36 AM PDT

  •  Have to admit I mostly just read the title (5+ / 0-)

    and opened to see what you were ranting about now.

    And found the usual F word within a couple of sentences, at least no Booming this or booming that, good grief.

    To tell the truth Wiener interests me about as much now as he did before. Some loud congressman that did nothing, so what.

    "Don't fall or we both go." Derek Hersey 1957-1993

    by ban nock on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:08:22 AM PDT

  •  Well (15+ / 0-)
    Again, I apologize to the Daily Kos community. Both to those who now love me, and to those who now hate me. I'm a dick.

    I disagree with you, but I still love you.   And you're not a dick.  

    I don't even want to rehash the whole Weiner thing at this point.  I still think this is between him and his wife and his constituents and the girls involved.  None of my business.  But whatever.  Chances are if he steps down he ends up like Spitzer anyway - better off financially and with an easier job reaching more people than he did while in office.

    I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

    by JustJennifer on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:13:33 AM PDT

  •  I'm totally lost (21+ / 0-)

    he did nothing inappropriate with this girl and who are we to say what his intentions were?  No one can KNOW what his intentions were.

    The parents, etc. have said there was nothing inappropriate.  He encouraged her political aspirations.

    But okay.  That's how you feel, I respect that.

    Some days are diamonds, some days are rocks...Tom Petty

    by Ellinorianne on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:14:04 AM PDT

    •  How was it proven to the diarist? (3+ / 0-)

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

      by CTMET on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:23:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "I came back strong. Large. Tights and a cape." (7+ / 0-)

      This is what Weiner wrote in one of his messages to the girl.

      And he used similar language, the "superhero" fantasy about how large he is... in his tights and cape... with the Las Vegas black jack dealer with whom he did have a very sexual online relationship with.

      And there is more about his interactions with her, and also relevant info about the conservative group that was watching him, noticed his interacting with her, and actually warned her about him, and also warned him that they were watching him. Which caused him to apologize and stop following her, but then they started following each other again, and he made this comment about being large in his tights and cape... Read the NYT story:

      At the time, a group of conservatives was monitoring Mr. Weiner’s Twitter activity, after noticing that he was sending messages to a pornographic star from Tennessee.

      When members of the group saw the girl’s post, suggesting she was engaging in a private conversation with Mr. Weiner, they alerted the congressman that they were watching him. “@RepWeiner new pal is a high school girl. First porn actresses now little girls. Weird.

      According to the girl’s family member, people in the group also copied the girl on some of the messages they sent to him, so she sent Mr. Weiner a private message telling him that she felt she was being harassed. He apologized to her in a private message, and removed her from the list of people he followed on Twitter.

      About a month later, Mr. Weiner sent out a public message saying he wanted to attract more followers on Twitter and offered to follow people on his account if they wanted him to.

      The girl responded to the appeal and posted a public message to him: “Don’t forget me. I used to follow you.” On May 16, he began following the girl again, and over the next 10 days they had three private message exchanges, the family member said.

      ...

      Weiner Confirms He Sent Private Messages to Girl, 17

      In a blog post on Tumblr, she later shared the contents of that private message from him. In it, Mr. Weiner appeared to liken himself to a superhero.

      I came back strong,” he wrote. “Large. Tights and cape ...

      On the Tumblr blog post she added, “My favorite Congressman.”

      In context, the troll is pretty obvious, as well as the fact that he restarted a private relationship with her, after stopping it the first time and after being warned that a conservative group was watching him and was aware of his contact with her. Stupid at best! And I think the sexual innuendo in this 'I'm so large in my tights and cape" line is obvious.

      The whole argument that he ONLY meant that he likes to pretend he's a superhero... well, some people are buying that. I don't.

      However, another important fact is that the police in Delaware have apparently decided that they buy it... or at least there is adequate plausible deniability that they have closed the case and said there was nothing sexual and no sexual innuendo in his interactions with her. So you can agree with them... or read what he wrote and see that there is a clear troll for a response there. I think he's getting by with this one on sheer luck, to be honest.

    •  Yes, I agree. Her parents found nothing (4+ / 0-)

      inappropriate, so why are people deciding that this is majorly inappropriate? Her parents are comfortable with all that took place!

      There are moments when the body is as numinous as words, days that are the good flesh continuing. -- Robert Hass

      by srkp23 on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:04:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good point about votes being (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fishgrease

    necessary and sufficient. "All we have and all we need". If only congress could make short work of an expulsion. Lord knows they could have had plenty of practice these past several years, if only they would have.

    I've had that thought about resignations short-circuiting the electoral process before, but didn't realize anyone else might think it was an important consideration. Thanks for articulating it.

    Moderation in most things.

    by billmosby on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:17:17 AM PDT

    •  If we got the candidate we voted for and the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      billmosby

      policies we favor, that voting thing would work great.  But President Obama is nothing like Candidate Obama, and single payer would have been on the table, and we would not be endlessly killing people in endless fucking wars.

      Votes are all we've got. Not only that, they're all we need. Even ridiculous, un-American Supreme Court decisions like "Citizens United" pale in power, when compared to each citizen's vote.

      Also left out juries.  

      (PDF)
      There is no doubt that jury nullification was one of the rights and powers that the people were exercising in 1791 when the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution was adopted. As legal historian Lawrence Friedman has written:
      In American legal theory, jury-power was enormous, and subject to few controls. There was a maxim of law that the jury was judge both of law and of fact in criminal cases. This idea was particularly strong in the first Revolutionary generation when memories of royal justice were fresh.

      Jury nullification is therefore one of the “rights . . . retained by the people” in the Ninth Amendment.  And it is one of the “powers . . . reserved . . . to the people” in the Tenth Amendment.

      Jury nullification is decentralization of political power. It is the people’s most important veto in our constitutional system. The jury vote is the only time the people ever vote on the application of a real law in real life. All other votes are for hypotheticals.

      Law nullifying jurors was such a great idea that the Supreme Court took away our "need to know" it -- 1895 Sparf:  

      The case has occasionally been simplistically described as: Since the law has no way to prevent the jury from judging the law, they shall have that right, but only if they do not know it.

      So we're screwed.

      "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor ever yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." - Thomas Jefferson

      •  Well, as to the first part, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thatvisionthing

        we've been voting for the labels, often for multiple elections, long after it has become apparent that the labels are wrong. One way to change that would be to just vote incumbents out for a couple of cycles so they get the idea that we're going to be more selective about our use of the vote, that they can't just call themselves something time after time and get our votes for that and then go their merry way servicing the highest bidders.

        I don't know anything about the second point you raise, thanks for the information.

        Moderation in most things.

        by billmosby on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 07:55:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Jury nullification was my epiphany (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          billmosby

          in traffic court, where there are no juries and the proceedings were quasilegal nonsense and justice was out to lunch, and then later when I was kicked out of jury pool voir dire by the judge when I said I would vote my conscience -- that was a shock.  Now I see the results of disabled juries everywhere.  Nobody expects citizens to truly be able to check and balance their government--who us?  Conscience is against the law in court and citizens may not know government secrets--and it's all secret, even Congress can't know.  And the nation acts without conscience; it really cannot help itself.  Even if we totally lost the government to psychopaths (corporations, military industrial complex, Wall Street), we the people should be able to refute unjust law via independent juries.  It's the constitutional way for America to self-correct.  Only trouble is, as I saw, independent jurors are kicked out before they can serve.

          Like I said, my epiphany, once you see it you can't unsee it, and I see the effects everywhere.

          More:

          - conscience
          - P.S. And the guys who wrote The Wire
          - DUDES!! ...

          Question authority.

  •  You are a duck? (4+ / 0-)

    Quack, quackety, quack, quack.

    Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:23:28 AM PDT

  •  You write very well for a Duck! (5+ / 0-)

    Do you type with your wings or beak?

    I'm tired of the Weiner story and am inclined to let his constituents decide.

    "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan

    by atlliberal on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:23:34 AM PDT

  •  I disagree. (10+ / 0-)

    You're not a d*ck, you're human and you didn't have all the facts.  Neither did I.  As a matter of fact, I doubt any of us have them as yet or ever will.  Only Weiner and the women/girls he interacted with know what was really written.

    You've convinced me.  I agree with your take on this, Fishgrease.  

    But make no mistake, in this case, you're not a d*ck.  You're just a human who didn't have all the facts.  And, not that my opinion means anything, but you've got integrity, a precious asset that seems to be very very rare these days.

    Ancora Imparo. ("I am still learning.") - Michelangelo, Age 87

    by Dreaming of Better Days on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:25:42 AM PDT

  •  Good luck with that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, Fishgrease

    It ain't gonna happen.  

    Stop. Stand up. Make a sign. Walk around in public. Be polite and orderly and the rest takes care of itself. Want to shake up the Plutocrats? Demonstrate your attention to politics.

    by Quicklund on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:26:23 AM PDT

  •  Whatever Fishgrease says---I'm for. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BlueJessamine, mjd in florida, Matt Z

    He's smart...knows his fucking shit.....

  •  asdf (8+ / 0-)
    I know. IOKIYAR.
    There are times we should be proud of that.

    Yup.
  •  I think he will resign (8+ / 0-)

    i've been worried about this since he said something to the effect that he "didn't knowingly engage in a sexting with anyone underage" in his press conference.

    Yeah, it's the Internet, and you can't be sure who the other person is, but that comment got me worried.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:34:37 AM PDT

    •  He will if it gets close enough to expulsion (2+ / 0-)

      Maybe even just an investigation, as Pelosi has talked about.  IOW, I think he'll go if he gets a good shove.  

      More's the pity.  It should be up to his constituents.

      A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

      by dougymi on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:41:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The innocuous convos with 17-year old don't change (5+ / 0-)

    anything.  It's still about sexting with consenting adults and lying about it before fessing up.

    The primary question is whether Rep. Weiner could regain his advocacy voice after the pounding he's taken? He's despondent and weakened. Recovery takes a while - when it does take place.  Most people would want to disappear for a good while and try to come back later.  

    It's getting harder and harder for him to stay, probably impossibly hard.  He's done dumb stuff. The other side of the coin is that if we knew what every one of the men in Congress was doing on the side, huge portions would be under as much pressure as Rep. Weiner is now. That's not an excuse for him, but it points out that the standards are unevenly applied.

    I still think it's up to him and his wife what to do and to the constituents.

  •  Oh no (7+ / 0-)

    Well, now that Hoyer has asked for him him to resign, I think it is over for him.  Hoyer was one of his most ardent supporters.  I've read elsewhere that if Hoyer asked Weiner to resign, he probably would.

    It really isn't looking promising and I am a bit disappointed, but I don't know everything.

    I've said that if he did ANYTHING inappropriate with someone not of age, I would say he needed to resign without hesitation.  

    Some days are diamonds, some days are rocks...Tom Petty

    by Ellinorianne on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:45:26 AM PDT

  •  You're in good company in taking so long (4+ / 0-)

    Not to say I told ya so, but back in the days before Weiner admitted to sending the tweet -- even before Breitbart posted any additional photos -- I  repeatedly said it was really creepy that he had asked to follow these young women on Twitter. I was attacked and everyone tried to explain to me that I didn't know shit because it wasn't weird that he was following these young women -- that it was somehow his regular practice to ask his twitter followers to reciprocate...this, in spite of how weird that idea was and the fact he was actually following such a small number that happened to include a bunch of nubile young women.

    Y'know what? I did tell y'all so.

    Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

    by FischFry on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:46:24 AM PDT

  •  My appreciation of Weiner's stand on issues (6+ / 0-)

    that concern me have outweighed my concern about his behavior...that changed with the tweets to the young girl (though I don't think anything illicit happened, the fact that a 46 year old would even communicate with a teen is beyond me) and the latest release of photos on TMZ (Full frontal posing in front of a mirror a la Chris Lee without pants)...

    I'm not concerned about the Democratic party, we'll be fine.  But Weiner's got to go.  He could return, in a few years, but it needs to be a return at this point and not a slog through the muck.

    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:48:14 AM PDT

  •  about your update (4+ / 0-)

    Here is my take on this (warning, personal story ahead)

    As someone who has engaged in, ahem, cyber-relations before with men I met online I can tell you that there are MANY men who never intend to meet the women they exchange these types of messages with.  I have experienced this more than once.   It annoyed the crap out of me because I am single and was looking to hook up not sext or cyber-sex but I can testify to the fact that this is a lot more common than you would think (the not wanting to take it any further and meet in person thing)

    Did he intend to meet any of these women?  I haven't read the texts myself but from what I have heard there was never any pressure about meeting in person.  Heck maybe the guy liked the cyber but wasn't looking to do anything about it.  If there is proof otherwise and he was trying to lure women to hotels or whatnot that is different I guess (still a personal matter in my opinion)

    I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

    by JustJennifer on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:02:41 AM PDT

  •  Not another Weiner diary. n/t (0+ / 0-)

    Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope... --RFK

    by expatjourno on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:04:54 AM PDT

  •  Fishgrease, you may call yourself a "D*ck", (6+ / 0-)

    but I will alwys think of you as a Richard.

    "There's nothing in the dark that's not there when the lights are on" ~ Rod Serling

    by jwinIL14 on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:11:41 AM PDT

  •  I don't agree (7+ / 0-)

    Tipped and rec'd because I appreciate people who can admit they were wrong or under-informed and change their mind.

    Where I disagree:

    1. You are not a dick. (And I'm pretty sure you're not a duck.)

    2. I think Weiner should resign, because that is the quickest end to this as a major news story, and that's what we need right now most of all. And end to all Weiner, all the time. The house expelling him keeps it in the news. He needs to resign and go into his treatment/retreat whatever it is and figure out his next steps.

    Can he one day "come back strong. Large. In his tights and cape" for the progressive causes he spoke about so passionately? I hope so. But it will take time. Right now, he needs to get himself off the stage. That's my opinion. I think he will probably be forced to resign fairly soon. This story has legs, and they will keep the pressure on him to go.

    But at the same time, the police have closed the case in the investigation about the underage girl. And there are reports that Weiner is worried about money if he loses his congressman job, so he may very well just stay in rehab and wait them out. I don't think they will expel him for it now that he's been legally exonerated and gone into 'treatment' -- this was a good move on his part if he intends to wait.

    But if he is really seeking treatment, sincerely, for something that he actually is admitting to himself and his wife is a problem, an uncontrollable compulsive behavior, either sexual or simply power-mad risk taking... and he wants to change for his family's sake, then I think a resignation will eventually be forthcoming. I guess we'll see.

    I'm angry at him and very unhappy with his choices and risks he took... he took the wind out of our sails on the Medicare fight and that was his big sin. They warned him they were watching him and yet he still didn't stop!!! That is a problem, folks.

    I also feel bad for him... even though he was dumb as hell, if he was/is compulsive then I have to try to have some sympathy. On a personal level I do, but politically I think he needs to resign.

    •  this is a fund I'd support (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      The "early retirement fund for folks who are doing us more harm in office than out" - incentive for them to step down, knowing that they wouldn't have to hold on by their fingernails  to stay in for financial reasons.

      I saw some similar proposals for a get-Bush-to-resign fund a while back.

    •  I feel bad for him too- pissed at him-- (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CS in AZ

      but still sorry for him.  He looked like he was coming apart at the seams in those shots from yesterday morning.

      And he's gonna be a daddy-- hope he can pull it together for the sake of his family.  And I hope Huma is as strong as she seems-- a woman in the early stages of pregnancy does not have a lot of tolerance for any kinda shit, least of all this kind.

  •  And I STILL insist that (7+ / 0-)

    anyone who blames a lost election on Anthony Weiner is a phony piece of crap. These things never affect other contests.

    Bad candidates lose their own elections and no one else's.

    It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

    by Fishgrease on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:17:38 AM PDT

    •  Amen to that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fishgrease

      I've said elsewhere, that this is just the first part of the regular 'summer stupid' we get every year.  If we are already looking at congressmen's dicks, you gotta wonder what's in store for us by the peak of stupid in August.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:28:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  disagree: that Rep and the underaged boy in 2006 (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gramofsam1, Matt Z, Virginia Liberal

      Too lazy to dig up the links (hey it's a comment thread) but the House leadership protecting that guy as long as they did combined with Katrina and Iraq fatigue to annoy the die hard righty grass roots and we retook the House. The page scandal had the feeling of a tipping point.

      I have no evidence that this is anything more than unsourced vague memory on my part.

      Weiner? Whatever ... The media was going to ignore the NY State special election anyway - unlike their coverage of the Mass special election in 2009 which was VE day and the fall of the Berlin Wall combined - and Weiner will probably be "solved" by redistricting. I'm probably done with the NY Daily News for gutting the comics section and they will eventually go on to something else following the media group-think herd.

      Though I agree with you on the teenager point. Sexting with over 21s: whatever. The potential that he wanted to ... uh ... sext with a high school girl: It's a good thing he screwed up before swapping pics. One can only imagine the glee the right wing smear squad felt when they realized they had a real one and it was (former) progressive champion Anthony Weiner.

      If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

      by jgnyc on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:34:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  These men know the fishbowl they are in. (5+ / 0-)

    These men Dem and GOP alike know the public scrutiny they will be subject to.  They chose this line of work.  I am sure with their backgrounds they had a multitude of options to choose from as far as career and lifestyle.  They chose public office.  Weiner should resign.  Clinton should have resigned as well and maybe we could have avoided the Bush years with Gore running as an incumbent.  Hell, with Gore we might have stopped 911.  

    These men and women know the fishbowl they are in.  I think that may be why some of them chose this public life.  They know the stakes.  

     

  •  My last comment (11+ / 0-)

    I'm indifferent, it's been played out.  The new photos are just as creepy and I really think his comment to the 17 year old were inappropriately suggestive.  Crossed the line?  Would he have gone further?  I have no idea.

    But I can't dwell on this anymore.  I think the issue is, no one else wants to dwell on it anymore either.  It's why so many more are calling for him to resign.

    Having a daughter myself, I am irked out beyond belief.   And just annoyed I've put this much thought into this.  I had no intention of writing a diary about this either.

    He will have to decided and if the ethics committee finds reason to expel him, so be it.  

    Thanks for the Diary Fishgrease.

    Some days are diamonds, some days are rocks...Tom Petty

    by Ellinorianne on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:36:51 AM PDT

    •  Thank YOU (6+ / 0-)

      You've been a dear friend throughout this whole mess. I wouldn't have had the patience for me that you have had.

      One word describes every one of your comments:

      Thoughtful.

      It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

      by Fishgrease on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:09:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I have a daughter, too, and I talked to her about (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini, Rick Aucoin

      this.

      Her response?  "Not that big a deal-- people do it all the time-- I don't think he should resign."

      My daughter just turned 18, and the truth?  Teens are doing this stuff, too.  A lot.  They don't think it is especially weird, even if it is something that they don't participate in.

      My daughter and her friends would find it tacky, and it is certainly a juvenile thing (and stupid, etc...) for Weiner to be doing.  But I'm pretty sure that this is quite common.  There is a subset of adults (and yes, teens) who find this kind of thing entertaining and even arousing.

      The "tights and cape" comment should not be taken out of context and laced with meaning that it had in another context.  Even with "large" in there-- if I had received a text like that from a man, I can tell you honestly, I would never have thought about the guy's penis.  I would have thought it a harmless remark.

      Let Weiner settle this with his voters and his wife, and let us stay out of it.

  •  iSex is different from drunk driving (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fishgrease, thatvisionthing

    Oh yes the 17 year old does change things as far as my defense of Weiner.   If that is against the law he should be prosecuted.

    But would everyone be calling for his resignation for a DUI, having zero intent of driving safely.  Careening his car past unknown numbers of infants and children.

    When I grew up I could have adult friends not in my immediate family, now you can't.  And after this you can't more.

    . . . from Julie, Julia. "Oh, well. Boo-hoo. Now what?"

    by 88kathy on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 10:51:29 AM PDT

    •  I agree. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      88kathy, middleagedhousewife

      I see drunk driving as at least somewhat an act of terrorism.

      The families of those killed and paralyzed by drunk drivers probably see no difference at all. I can't imagine a worse terror than getting one of those phone calls from the police or hospital.

      It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

      by Fishgrease on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:12:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Your kidding right? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    phenry, Fishgrease

    As far has been shown to date the message sent to the 17 year old was limited to the Comic Book Superhero reference.

    I think too many people are conflating and making inference where it isn't obvious. Just because he used a similar comment in a sexual manner with an adult doesn't mean that said phrase was intended sexually towards the 17 year old.

    Now if Weiner knows that he sent something inappropriate to a minor I'd agree that then resigning might be a good idea otherwise this is so much bullshit.

    Note that in all the articles on this that they are pulling a bait and switch. They start talking about the 17 year old then they reference the tweets to the adult blackjack dealer in Las Vegas leaving the inference there that she is the 17 year old.

  •  all i can say is i keep thinking ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    princesspat, Fishgrease

    about what kind of 'sexting' and abuse of office and over testosteron-itis (which some say comes hand in foot with power ...) happened (happens) for those who aren't using or weren't around when twitter and email etc were the MO for this kind of behavior.

    the old days when the media would NOT report on JFKs multiple affairs or George Bush Sr. secret girl friend or FDRs or Nelson Rockefellers dalliances....

    These behaviours NEVER made front page news then. And do we really think the behaviours have gotten worse or is it just the media pounding it down our throats 24x7?

    As disappointed and disgusted as I am, I just can't get over the fact that he was targeted, just like Spitzer was, and the fact that this sense of being so utterly 'addicted' to unethical or perhaps a better word to use is sleazy, i don't know, behaviors is SO rampant ... look at Berlosconi!

    It seems obvious that today anyone who wants to bring down a politicial has only to look into his sex life. And politicians are so crazed with power and priv. they have lost all sense of impulse control. The immediate fix is so importatant. They cannot see the consequences. Just reeks of narcisstic personality disorder. OR some aspects of OCD.

    In other words, most of them are SICK.

    Hopes to be Reporting LIVE from Durban @COP17 ...

    by boatsie on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:12:16 AM PDT

  •  with the exception of five states (6+ / 0-)

    AZ CA IA ND WI

    the age of consent for females is 17 or lower

    it is 17 in NY, where Weiner is located

    In CO and  CT it is 15

    In HA and ID it is 14

    in a few other states, it might be 16 but the male can only be a few year older

    it may be creepy to have an adult man coming on to a 17 year old, but her age would not have made a sexual relationship illegal

    and FWIW - when Leaves on the Current and I first began dating she was 17 and I was 28.  In PA where we were the age of consent is 16.

    You can have all kinds of reasons for wanting to see Weiner removed, but I suggest some caution on  this particular basis.

    "what the best and wisest parent wants for his child is what we should want for all the children of the community" - John Dewey

    by teacherken on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:14:04 AM PDT

    •  As a teacher you're saying that? (7+ / 0-)

      Holy cow.  This sounds like a NAMBLA meeting, but it's what ok to groom and do the sexual predator thing on women?  Caution?  Those consent laws are so that teen age boys and girls don't go to jail for doing what teens do to each other not to give 47 year old men the right to sexually interact with teen age girls

      EWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

      Every moment in life contains an off ramp. Never be afraid to use it.

      by Adept2u on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:24:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  most states do not make a distinction (6+ / 0-)

        as to how much older the man is.  I am noting that fact.

        Because hitting on someone much younger is obnoxious, it is certainly grounds for a political opponent to use in a campaign.

        But it is in most cases not illegal, even if consummated.

        The diarist writes as if because she was 17 it was therefore somehow very horrible, as if it were illegal.

        That is the only point I am making.

        Jerry Lee Lewis married, with the permission of her parents, his 13 year old cousin.

        Lorretta Lynn got married at 13.

        I don't approve of what Weiner did.  You have no where seen me defend him.

        I am merely clarifying the state of the law as to age of consent.

        Oh, and by the way, in some states the age of consent for girls was 16 but for boys was 18, and if to 17 year olds did the deed she could legally be charged with statutory rape and/or impairing the morals of a minor.

        "what the best and wisest parent wants for his child is what we should want for all the children of the community" - John Dewey

        by teacherken on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:56:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Heh. (0+ / 0-)

          How dare you respond with pertinent facts. And as a teacher, no less. You must be some sort of sicko.
          :)

          Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

          by NMDad on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 12:32:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  In Delaware, where the girl lives- (3+ / 0-)

          the age of consent is 18.

          And regardless of legal statutes, a 46 year old  married congressman who likes to tweet dick shots is asking for trouble when he decides to "follow" a 17 year old girl and tweet private messages to her.

          I don't know what he intended.  But he opened up a big box of "this does not look good."

        •  Rec'd (0+ / 0-)

          but this isn't fully accurate.

          The diarist writes as if because she was 17 it was therefore somehow very horrible, as if it were illegal.

          It's seems horrible to me.

          I did comment on the age of consent here.

          And I still don't think he should resign. I've not called for Weiner to resign. I don't think he will. Or should.

          So Congress can either put up or shut up. They can eject him or wait and let the voters have their say.

          It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

          by Fishgrease on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 04:32:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It's 14 here in Utah for girls with parental (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kat68, gramofsam1, Fishgrease

        consent.  But I'm afraid that here it may well be so that 47 year old men have the right to sexually interact with 14 year old girls, given what goes on in the southern end of this state under the guise of "religion," but that is another story.  When Mr. MAHW and I were in the office to obtain our marriage license, there were parents there signing their kid off to a middle aged man.
        As the parent of a 14 year old daughter -- I'm going to have to get out of this thread before my temper gets the better of me. :(
        Thanks for standing up for the kids, Adept.

        "On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps...of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again."

        by middleagedhousewife on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 12:38:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The bottom line (11+ / 0-)

    I don't care if "everybody does it."
    I don't care if it's "legal".
    I don't care if it's a Dem or Rep or the purple people eater

    ANY elected or appointed politician who uses his political  power for the express purpose of meeting his own needs for sexual gratification should be run out on a rail, period.   It is abuse of power. Full stop.

  •  I have scrupulously avoided commenting (8+ / 0-)

    on this issue until now.

    Because it is you, FG, and because you've expressed yourself in characteristically fine (and uncharacteristically humble) fashion, I'll add my voice to the throng.

    Though Weiner has been a strong progressive voice in the House I'm afraid that I, too, believe he should step down if for no other reason than to end the distraction.

    What he has done is reprehensible whether or not a minor is involved. That makes it worse, of course. The incidents, in and of themselves, aren't really reasons for dismissal, in my opinion, but the timing could not be worse and in the interest of damage control and basic human dignity, he needs to go.

    Nicely written diary, Fishgrease. Well done.

    "If we want to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, we need to reduce the number of our senators dependent on fossil fuel contributions." - Rodney Glassman

    by Darryl House on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:21:29 AM PDT

  •  Ah, f*ck. (11+ / 0-)

    I was also convinced when I read what he wrote to that 17 year old.  That's just plain skeevy.

    The phone sex conversation that was acted out on Bill Maher's show was between two adults (one of whom is a blackjack dealer in Las Vegas and knows what she's playing around with) who were having a major goof using sexual language.  It was so over-the-top on both sides I could only see it as adult fun.  Maybe not cool for a married man, but that's between him and his wife.

    But talking like that to a 17 year old, no matter how mature she is?  It's freakin' predatory and not. funny. at. all.

    FDR: The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
    RNC: The only thing we have is fear.

    by smileycreek on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:24:43 AM PDT

  •  I care about unemployment and crooks on Wall St (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini, Rick Aucoin, Fishgrease

    I could give a rats ass about any of this stuff.  

    Why do some Dems insist on keeping this issue front and center while refusing to discuss the real problems facing our country.

    Are you a Democrat or not?  If so, start acting like one and discuss real issues.  

    I'm a Democrat, I'm proud of my party and I want to work on fixing our country's problems.  

    I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens. --Britney Spears

    by Betty Pinson on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:42:12 AM PDT

    •  I plead guilty. (0+ / 0-)

      And can only promise this will be the last of my own crappy diaries on this subject.

      Probably not the end of my crappy diaries.

      Crappy diaries are my style. My mode. My groove. Whole string of those French words people throw around.

      It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

      by Fishgrease on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 04:21:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Delaware State Police had this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini, Fishgrease, David PA

    for a week or so before it hit the news, and they had already concluded that it wasn't a crime.  Since I have to live under their rules, I'm satisfied with their conclusion.

    I'm much more concerned about the guy with the ax who was wandering around her neighborhood the night it broke.  I live in Brandywine Hundred.  I don't want to meet him.  

    http://www.delawareonline.com/...

    "Republicans are poor losers and worse winners." - My grandmother, sometime in the early 1960s

    by escapee on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:46:32 AM PDT

  •  I was ready to ditch him after he made idiots (5+ / 0-)

    of liberals by letting them carry on and on defending him while he knew all along that we were wrong. Not to mention the heinous crime of lending credibility to Andrew Breitbart. I didn't care much whether he resigned or not -but now he's entered Mark Foley territory, and he just needs to go.

    "We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard, and too damned cheap." Kurt Vonnegut

    by tomasyn on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:48:23 AM PDT

  •  And now new photos have surfaced of him (6+ / 0-)

    half naked and touching himself in the House gym. I'm so sick of this guy now and it's just going to be drip, drip, drip with the pics until the day he finally leaves.

    Someone yank this guy off the stage, please. I'm beyond done with his foolish, reckless behavior derailing the Democratic message.

    Thanks for a great diary. It's hard to flip the lens and see things differently once your mind is made up and I applaud you for doing so.

    For life and death are one, even as the river and the sea are one.

    by kat68 on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 11:57:07 AM PDT

  •  Due process? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fishgrease

    I'm not understanding why you believe that the process would be quick or should be immediate. In past cases where laws were broken, affording due process meant lengthy periods before a vote was brought to the House (if ever). Due process means investigation, hearings, time for rebuttals and consideration.

    I now believe that Anthony Weiner should be formally ejected, fired, (whatever it is called) from the U.S. House of Representatives. I believe this can be done quickly and with a near-unanimous vote of both the Ethics Committee and the House as a whole.
    •  Okay then. They better get started. Or let (0+ / 0-)

      the voters decide.

      Weiner isn't going to resign. Congress can either put up or shut up.

      Which is good. We could do with a few less short cuts.

      It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

      by Fishgrease on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 04:17:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, (0+ / 0-)

        you might want to brace yourself for the possibility that he'll resign because Huffpo now reports that he's considering it. Personally, I'm okay with letting the voters decide.

        Okay then. They better get started. Or let (0+ / 0-)

        the voters decide.

        Weiner isn't going to resign. Congress can either put up or shut up.

        Which is good. We could do with a few less short cuts.

  •  So get ur buds to take back HR's you had'em lay on (0+ / 0-)

    You asked your buddies to HR me which they did and now you are flip flopping but not cleaning up ur mess.

    Then you can do your "Hallelujah, I've seen the light" bit.

    •  Not in your case. (0+ / 0-)

      Your posts were uninformed and wrong. You still don't come within a mile of truth. The truth just nudged a couple of inches closer to you.

       And if Boehner tweeted his weiner pix to teens?

      I'm guessing you would be calling for him to resign, which is what Weiner should do.

      Wrong. Stupid.

      I would HR it again.

      It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

      by Fishgrease on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 04:14:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  17 year olds are delicate children (0+ / 0-)

    who need protecting.

    Unless they're being charged with a crime in the adult criminal court.

    Then they're fair game, aren't they?

    As for age of consent laws...

    We need to have Age of Prudery Laws:  

    The age at which one isn't bound to some fantasy vision of teenage prudery.

    Now, if the Weiner was pursuing the 17 yr old girl and she indicated that said pursuit was unwanted.. that's a much much different matter.

    I know how to protect our innocent teenagers:

    Let's teach abstinence-only sex education classes and ask them to take vows of chastity because, clearly, until someone fosters notions of sex upon them they are abstaining.

    As a hardcore Democrat, Obama has shaken my faith. Imagine what he's done for independents.

    by Johnathan Ivan on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 12:20:10 PM PDT

  •  well, fish, i'm a dick, too. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KenBee, Fishgrease

    your first diary, for me, somehow, i read the diary list and thought: YAY ! a diary about DUCKS !

    didn't work out.
    try again?

    then i remembered: we let those lines get awfully close, and then where are we?

    i was in a spiritual/whatever head-on when pedophelia--the real kind, the very, very young kind--came into the life of someone least likely to be ever suspected.

    and the defenses! "no one was hurt, he was """"just looking at pictures"""" it's a victimless crime" left such a big scar on me and others.

    nothing will come close to ever describing what was done, what was felt, what is still being done, what is still being felt... so i was able to read a few of the ha-ha comments in your first diary get close to pedo jokes.

    then left, then tried to comment, then left. this is still not a good comment, but you are a good man. you may actually find that children receive rescue somehow, from all this coming from another 'surprise' villain.

    none of us knows much of anything, really, but some things we do. we have to, or we'd be eating cotton and showing up at dinner with Kurt Vonnegut, who just about seen it all, innit.

    The Addington perpwalk is the trailhead for accountability in this wound on our national psyche. [...you know: Dick Cheney's "top" lawyer.] --Sachem

    by greenbird on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 12:30:44 PM PDT

  •  Good on you Fish, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Geekesque, Virginia Liberal

    I knew you would see the light.   Strip away all the politics and this guy is just a garden variety narcissistic weirdo with a not particularly impressive record as a legislator.

  •  Peace. No worries. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fishgrease

    I like you because you are a dick.

    I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

    by CherryTheTart on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 04:02:54 PM PDT

  •  FG: when Ed Schultz' stepped down temporarily (0+ / 0-)

    the other day, after he blurted out some unfortunate epithets in a discussion on camera,
    I thought he did the right thing [to protect a valuable progressive voice]
    You disagreed with me in no uncertain terms, remember?
    Do you still feel the same?

  •  I usually agree with you (0+ / 0-)

    on most stuff fish, but not here.

    I say let him get some counseling. Judge him on his job performance. I take it as given that politicians are all pretty much some form of batshit crazy which I wouldn't want to be related to. They enter and win elections on account, and in spite, of their "eccentricities".

    I don't want to see further Weiner gossip diaries any more than Palin gossip diaries.  It's all too...  tabloid. Some sort of morbid fascination makes you look, then wish you hadn't.

    Enough already.

    Free University and Health Care for all, now. -8.88, -7.13

    by SoCalHobbit on Sun Jun 12, 2011 at 09:54:31 PM PDT

  •  T&R'd for the title - (0+ / 0-)

    even though I don't agree.  ;)  It's refreshing.

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